Mason: Welcome back to Small Business Spoonfuls. My name is Mason Merrill and I am joined by Lisa Smith. 

Lisa: Hey Mason!

Mason: And we are back Today, we're gonna be kind of starting this, kind of, new category of podcasts called our Ask HR Support Feature. And these are real questions from real people we have answered before and we thought were interesting. So we will just hop right into it today. Our question is, no kids allowed in your own home. 

Lisa: Yeah. So this was one that came in and I think this is a great question because, you know, since we have so many people working, remotely working from home these days, this is a big concern for employers, especially if you have someone who's doing customer service and they're required to interact with, you know, other people. And you know what So what she's asking is, since Covid, we've closed down our offices and we're a hundred percent remote now, so we're in the process of hiring for another position, which will also be remote work from home. Can we tell someone that they can't have their children at home during work hours The job will be answering calls and emails throughout the day, and this is gonna be a new experience for us and the other employees because no one has kids in our organization except for maybe this potential new hire. So can we tell them you can't have your kids at home during work hours 

Mason: Yeah. So I think to a lot of people, the obvious question or the obvious answer might just be, well, no, you can't say that to them and you can't enforce that cuz that would be discrimination, right, Lisa 

Lisa: Yeah, basically. And so there are a couple of different kinds of discrimination that this could be. for one thing, a lot of states have, something called familial status protections. And that means that if you have kids and you're discriminated, you're not hired because you have kids for instance, then that's discrimination and the employer can be charged for that. Now, that's not a federal thing, but many states have that in their human rights acts, but there's also a federal thing called sex discrimination. And so since women are primarily caregivers still these days, and we've seen so many women that have had to leave the workforce because they needed to go home to be with their kids because of covid. And a lot of folks have found out that they really enjoy homeschooling because of, you know, your kids are more well than they used to be when you send 'em to school. 

Lisa: And then also the fear about violence at school that we see, right Almost every week, you know, if not several times a week. We see that in the news. And so a lot of parents have made that decision that we are just gonna keep doing homeschool because this is something that we, we take very seriously and, you know, we're not, we're just not gonna go down that road. So if I can work from home, it's the best of both worlds. So that being said, then you have a mom who had to leave the workforce during covid or maybe for other reasons because she's the primary caretaker, maybe she's a single mom. Yeah. And this could turn into sex discrimination, 

Mason: Right Yeah. And we've, and we've moved into a new era here with, COVID and things like that. Cuz it used to be everybody goes to work. And I don't, I I don't know the percentages, but I'm sure the percentages of remote to in-person, in the office jobs have balanced the scales a lot more , these days. So this is the so what, like obviously I I, I see both sides, right I see the mom at home with the kids struggling, she need, you know, like all that. But I also see the company's side. We wanna maintain a professional environment. we wanna maintain a professional, when we're on these calls, we don't want a bunch of kids screaming in the background, all that kind of stuff. I have kids, I know how hard it is, I how it, how hard it can be to focus and stuff like that at home. So what can the employer do here to avoid any type of discrimination Not saying, and we're not saying this person is trying to discriminate by asking of this. They're just trying to keep a professional image for their company. So what can they do here, Lisa 

Lisa: Yeah, and no, that's important because they're not trying to discriminate. And the other thing before I answer that question I wanna say is that this answer does not change if the candidate is a dad with kids at home, right It still could be sex discrimination. we have to just look at the details of the case. Okay So here's what you can do. You can say that the candidate must have a calm and quiet background when taking calls, but if you try and make it personal, then you do risk charges of discrimination. You also miss maybe, you know, getting some super amazing talent because your tunnel visioned into no, if they have kids, they must, you know, it's gonna ruin the, the whole thing. You know No, you may find someone who is just amazing and can make all of this work with kids in the other room. 

Lisa: So, so try to be open-minded about it because, you know, with the discrimination factor, you may think, well, that's farfetched. But think about this. Most of us in HR realize and have heard that you cannot ask someone if they have a car, right You, you have to say, do you have reliable transportation You know, do you, you have a reliable way to get to work every day, not do you have a car so you can come to work every day You can't ask that. Well, so that seems weird. Why can't I ask someone if they have a car You know Well, because years ago, and even in some areas today, folks who are in various minority groups are discriminated against pay wise and opportunity wise. And so they may not be able to own a vehicle. They may re may rely on friends and family and public transportation. 

Lisa: They may walk to work. And so asking the question, do you have a car could turn out in the end to disadvantage minority groups in the hiring process And that would actually be race discrimination. And so it's the same thing with the kid situation. And that's how we get to sex discrimination, okay Because moms typically are caretakers, but even if dad is the primary caretaker, it would still be a situation on the basis of sex and possibly familial status like I pointed out before. So that's what we have to do, is we just have to focus on what's the endgame, right The endgame is, I shouldn't care if you have kids, I shouldn't care if you have a car. Like I shouldn't care. All I should care about is can you provide a calm and quiet background when you're talking to clients and can you do the work every day and meet the goals, the performance goals, you know, that we set for you, regardless of if you have kids in your house or not, can you do this Yeah. And if the answer is yes, you can, well then you need to be considered for this position, 

Mason: Right So, yeah, so it it's all about the way you word it , so it doesn't come off. You can still achieve the goal you want in your company to, maintain your professional image and keep the loud noises outta the background of calls and things like that. But, it's all in, in a lot of, we find in hr it's all about how you word it because people have reactions to certain things and you can come off in a way that you totally didn't mean. But if we, if we word it like, Hey, we want to keep it like this, don't care if you have kids or not, can you have this environment cool if, if so, great. And then if there's a problem down the line, you can address it then. 

Lisa: Yeah. And so, and don't try to do any tricky little things for you weasel out of people if they have kids or not. Right Stay completely off the topic. Don't go anywhere near it. Not even remotely, you know, trying to say something that would trigger a response, right Like, like, you know, something about, oh well, you know, my kids did this. And then that person might say, oh, I know I have kids too. You know, don't try to trick anybody into divulging information. Just stick with your interview process Yeah. And choose the most qualified candidate. 

Mason: And if they volunteer that information, don't touch it. Don't even say, oh well since you have kids, can you do that No, don't even touch it. Just move straight on. Yeah, 

Lisa: No, I, you know, and, and, and you know, you will as an imperfect human being, you will hear kids Yeah. And you'll be like, okay, mental note, even if I don't write that down mental note. So if I'm deciding between two people, and I know one of them said they had kids, I'm probably imperfectly going to lean toward the person with no kids. And, you know, that's, that's done all the time. Yeah. We just do things like that because we can't help it, right Because we're just imperfect and we have those, you know, tendencies and, and so the more you can do to keep yourself from being tempted and unbiased in that direction, the better . Yeah. 

Mason: Yeah. So, yeah, that was a good question, Lisa, but it can be very simply avoided if you just keep, you know, make sure you're wording things the right way and, achieving the goal without offending people at the end of the day. 

Lisa: Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. So don't paint everybody with the same brush, right You know, let's look at individuals and their, their qualifications and what they can do for us and we'll just do the best we can. I mean, that's all we can do these days, right, Yep. 

Mason: That's right. And as always, this podcast is, we're gonna wrap it here, but this podcast is sponsored by help desk for hr. If you're looking for more support, if you have questions that you wanna ask us like this, we don't say everyone on the po every question on the podcast obviously, but if you have questions or want day-to-day help, we provide that with our services. And, we also have apps and documents and anything you can think of in the, to help you be the best HR professional you can be. So you can go to our website at help desk for hr.com. that's where you can find us and also follow us on Twitter. It helped us for hr and that's where we'll be engaging with this podcast. You might see some questions come up that you can sound off in the comment section and tell us what you think and tell us what you think about this topic as well when the, when the episode drops. but we wanna always leave you with our next topic for our next episode. This is gonna be an interesting one, Lisa, why don't you go for it. 

Lisa: Okay. So our next one is another Ask HR support. And it is, my employee is a Wiccan. Now what 

Mason: Yeah, so we'll, we will leave it right there for you. So, 

Lisa: Yeah. And always remember, like we always say, you can't be audit proof, you can't be investigation proof. But if you follow the steps and you do your best and you take the advice maybe that we give and always consult your legal counsel , you can feel secure the day that investigator or that auditor walks in. That's why we always say be audit secure.