Lisa: Hey, and welcome to another edition of Small Business Spoonfuls. I'm Lisa Smith and I'm here joined today with Mason Merrell. How's it going, Mason 

Mason: Going pretty good. glad to be here again with you talking about some interesting topics. 

Lisa: Yeah, I know we have some interesting harvests. We have a great one for today. But, but before we do that, I want to let everybody who's listening know that at the end of today's episode, we are going to give a special offer to our listeners, so mm-hmm. , stick around for the end because you do not wanna miss this. 

Mason: Yeah, yeah. It's a very special offer that only our listeners can receive, 

Lisa: So. That's right. And so anyway, we were not gonna say anything else because we're gonna address this in a little more detail later, so, yeah. Okay. So today's topic is one of the Ask HR support series that we've been doing where we take actual questions that have come in and we answer them. So we teased it in last week's episode that the topic question for today is, my customer said their snake is a service snake. Is that a thing 

Mason: Yeah. You know this, that when I was, 20 something ear, late teenager to early 20 something, I had a, an opportunity, to somebody was gonna give me their ball python, you know So it was just kinda, I that I kind of brought up that memory and the people I was living with at the time were like, no. So you can see how this topic would turn off an employee if the cu you know, the customer's like, oh, I have to bring this in your business because this is my service snake. So interesting subject in how to broach it here, , because a lot of people are very, no matter how passive a snake can be, it's always a sign in your head to be like, oh, snap. I don't want to be near that thing. 

Lisa: , yes, we are all, like, not all of us, but a lot of us are terrified when it comes to snakes. Like, we don't want anywhere, you know, we, we don't want them near us or, you know, anything. But a lot of people love snakes. And so it would make sense that you might have a customer that comes into your, you know, place of business and you're a little taken aback by the snake, and they say, oh, well this is a service animal. 

Mason: Yeah. 

Lisa: And so our question, you know, was, is that a thing Can a snake be a service animal 

Mason: Right. And how do we not get sued if we want to ask about it 

Lisa: Exactly. Because there are rules, you know, right. Under the ADA about, service animals, and this could be whether it's for your employee or your customers. And so, so this particular question was about a customer, but so we wanna look at the criteria, right. That we have to review in order to make this decision. So if you need to know if someone's animal is a service animal, this could be a dog, it could be a cat, it could be a, a chicken, it could be a rooster, you know, it could be a snake. Okay. Like, whatever they're presenting to you, if you wanna know, is this a bonafide service animal, there are only two questions you're allowed to ask. Yeah. 

Lisa: And the first one is, is this animal fill in the blank, a service animal required because of a disability And then all they have to say is yes or no. They don't have to say, well, yes, I have this disability. They just have to say, yes, yes, it's required because of a disability. And then the next question that you ask is, okay, what work or task has the snake been trained to perform And then they have to tell you in a fair amount of detail, like, you know, like, how this works. Like, well, this is a snake that has been trained that if I'm about to have a seizure, it, you know, bites me, or it, it tightens itself around me, or it, it does something, it crawled through my hair. like, I don't know, can you even train a snake to do that I don't know. But, but, you know, service dogs, seizure dogs are very common and they are trained to bark nudge the person, you know Right. Jump up on the person, do various things, you know, when a seizure's about to occur, occur, for instance. And so what work has this animal, has this snake been trained to do 

Mason: Right. 

Lisa: Yeah. And so that's gonna be a hard question to ask or to answer. and it should be answered, you know, like pretty rapidly, because if you've got an animal that's been trained, you know the details of it. Yeah. And so the person shouldn't have to sit there and try to think it up on the spot. 

Mason: Right Yeah. If they're bringing this service animal into a, an establishment, you know, they're, they've been, I'm sure they've been, you know, instructed when, when the, you know, they got whatever it was, I, I don't know how it works, getting a service animal, whatever that process went through, I'm sure they've been instructed of how to answer these questions. So y you is the, the business owner, employer, whatever it may be, you have the right to answer, ask those two questions. But there are some questions that you cannot like request of, and that is, on the spot requesting any documentation that the dog or service animal is registered, licensed, or certified as a service animal. So you can't see any documentation, 

Lisa: Right That's right. You cannot ask for that. 

Mason: And then you cannot require that the service animal demonstrates its task. So you can't say dog bark because I'm seizing. You know, that's just not a real thing. Or inquire about the nature of the person's disability. So you can't be like, well, what's wrong with you then You know Yeah. You can't really talk about the disability. You can ask what is the dog or the service animal been trained to perform Like you said, maybe the snake tightens, maybe it starts moving around its body, you know, the person's body if they're having you, you know, signs of, of something that's going on. But you can't, you can't talk about that disability and get into the thick of what's going on with the disability. 

Lisa: Yeah. And so it can be very deceiving because there are places you can go online and buy these vests, like for your dog or maybe your snake, I don't know. But for your animal that looks like they're a service vest, right Yeah. Yeah. Service animal vest, but they're not required to wear them. Yeah. So they don't have to be dressed in a certain uniform to be a service animal. 

Mason: Yeah. And I would say probably, you know, I've seen, you know, just being in Walmart or different grocery stores or whatever where somebody brings a service animal in nine times outta 10, you see that vest on the animal. Yeah. And so sometimes you won't, but like a lot of times the people who have these disabilities that need these service animals are fully equipped with whatever they need to keep it in a safe environment that it's not gonna cause a problem for your business. 

Lisa: Right. And so, you know, so this is interesting because there is a difference between service animals and emotional support animals. Right. And em, and business owners and employers that business owners do not have to allow emotional support animals inside their, their business if they don't want to. Right. 

Mason: Right. And that's, and that's why you can ask that question, 

Lisa: Right. Because if they say, oh, no, this isn't a service animal, this is my emotional support snake. We, I'm sorry, we don't allow snakes in the building. And if they try to go down and, you know, get you in trouble somewhere, or try to sue you or try to report you to, you know, some, organization, then, I mean, they don't really have the laws on your Yeah. The laws on your side. Yeah. Because service animals, are only the ones that are allowed. And in some settings, even a service animal wouldn't be allowed. Yeah. And so what kind of setting could you think that that might be it could be like, like let's say you're in a hospital and you bring a dog that's shedding a lot, and that could compromise a sterile environment. Right Right. So that would be an area that a service that a, a service animal would not be allowed to come into. generally service animals that are bonafide service animals can't be restricted from most areas. Right. But if there is a threat, a danger, you know, something like that, then that could be an extenuating circumstance where you, you could deny entry. 

Mason: Yeah. So it's, it's very rare. your average business is not gonna be able to deny entry to a service animal. But there are some, some, exceptions to the rule. and usually, once again, the people carrying the service animals know what those exceptions are. 

Lisa: Yes. And also, you wanna think this through for your organization, like, are you going to allow emotional support animals Are you gonna allow, you know, what are you going to make exceptions for Because like, for instance, the airlines, so there are emotional support animals that are allowed on the airplane, and generally those are restricted to dogs and cats and domesticated animals because people were literally bringing peacocks chickens. what was another one Oh, like miniature horses, all sorts of things. They were bringing those on airplanes. Yeah. And for a while. Yeah. 

Mason: Yeah. And for, like you said, for a while that was okay, but that, I mean, that can be unsafe in some circumstances. 

Lisa: Exactly. And it was just too much interference with other passengers as well. And so the, you know, the airlines finally said, we're gonna cut this out. We're gonna limit emotional support animals to a few animals. And then we're also going to require, you know, like if it's truly a service animal, you need to answer these questions, but you're not bringing a horse on, you know, to the airplane. I mean, that's just something we're not gonna do anymore. Right. You know, and so, so we also think about too, you know, does the animal have the ability to be trained And so I don't know if it's if a snake can be trained or not. I know dogs and cats can be, you know, and 

Mason: Snakes can be trained. I don't know about service animal trained, or I've never heard of that before. I mean, probably a quick Google could look that up for sure. . 

Lisa: Yeah. So if you're a, if you're a, a, a business owner and you're struggling with this question, like, should we come up with a list of, you know, bonafide service animals that can be trained You know, definitely, you know, start looking that up, get some help with it, you know, whatever, but make sure your policy is, is valid and it's legal, and it's gonna keep your company safe so that you don't turn away an animal that truly was a service animal. And because you are limited on, on what you can ask, and you can't require, they show you a document. Right. That it has to be a really solid judgment call that you're making there. Mm-hmm. . 

Mason: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And like you said, emotional support animals, you can write policies about, Hey, we don't allow it at all, or we allow this or that, or whatnot. That's absolutely 100% in your control. So really getting to the point of differentiating, is this a service animal Because, you know, somebody not knowing, bringing a support animal or an emotional support animal into your business may say, oh yeah, it's a service animal. You know, and then you say, you, and then you can, you can, you can differentiate what it is by the next question, well, what worker task has it the animal been trained to do And then they say, well, it just keeps me calm all the time. You know Well, that's not a service animal, right, Lisa, 

Lisa: Right No, that's correct. Yeah. I mean, maybe a person says, well, I just suffer from anxiety disorder and this this cat or this dog, or this snake, snake keeps me calm. Yeah. This snake keeps me calm and makes me feel secure. Well, that's not that, that snake hasn't been trained to do anything to alert you or assist you. 

Mason: Yeah. It's essentially like saying, I need my blanky. You know, like, and that's exactly, some people need that. Like, I, I, I, yeah. Like no, nothing against emotional support animals, it's just these are the things you can, you can create guidelines on for your business. 

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, I have emotional support, grandkids, you know, just like hugging them makes me like, oh, feel so good. And so re you know, so relaxed 

Mason: Compared to, doesn't mean I can take 'em into a store and say they're a service yet. No, I'm just kidding. 

Lisa: , . It doesn't mean they're gonna be allowed in a store. That's right. , because there are other things to consider with those grandkids, but, but you , so maybe that wasn't the best example . but you know, I mean, it is true. Like, you know, you could have a cat or dog or a snake or some other form of animal that really just, it just feels good when you hug that animal. Yeah. And it makes you like, okay, calm down and deflate a little bit. That doesn't mean it was trained, or it's actually actively doing anything to assist you other than just living. Right. You know Yeah, 

Mason: Exactly. So yeah, those are the things you wanna differentiate. I think we covered this topic pretty well. It's always an interesting question because Yeah. You know, in the moment it's hard to be, like, especially if you're snake like a, a, you know, if you're not a snake person, you know, like, like the people that I lived with at the time, they were not snake people. And the thought of that snake getting away from my room Yes. And just roaming about their house was like, oh my gosh, I can't even fathom that. So a lot of people are like that, and it, when it comes to your business that, you know, it's a shocking thing in the moment to see, you know, a big dog or a snake or somebody bringing something in. So, main thing, keep your cool, ask the right questions and proceed, you know, with caution, but also have good policies in place that help you proceed along the, the, path of making the right decision. 

Lisa: That's right. That's right. So hopefully this helped you out and, if you need more information on this, hit us up at support@helpdeskforhr.com. And 

Mason: Yeah. And if you have any crazy stories, we would love to hear them. Any, you know, I say crazy, but any like, wild stories, like somebody brought this into my business and it was an emotional support animal and I had to tell 'em to go, we would love to hear those type of things and we will talk about 'em on the podcast for sure. 

Lisa: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Tell us all your stories. We would love to, to, help other people learn too, from your experiences. Yeah, 

Mason: Exactly. So let's get to the special part. So we, we, appreciate of all, all of our listeners, and we wanted, as we always talk about, we are help desk for hr.com. We're a membership website where you can find endless resources, ask questions, make handbooks use our application suite for all kinds of different things. And we wanted to give our listeners a special offer. Normally our price is 8 99, and we wanna give everyone a special podcast offer to, a special offer where you can purchase our services for 6 75, which is a pretty big discount. 

Lisa: Yeah. It's a huge discount. So that is 8 99 annually is the regular rate. And so for being a listener, $675 annually, and guess what You're locked in. Yeah. So it's not just for this year, and then you get jumped up to 8 99 next year, you, as long as your a account stays active, you know, and it doesn't lapse, you will pay 6 75 annually and you will not have a price raise, you know, price increase I should say. So yeah, so this is a really big deal, and we really appreciate you being a listener. So we wanted to make this available to you. 

Mason: Absolutely. So you can click the link in the show notes for the signup. Also put a link for our getting started section so you can see what all include is included if help with help desk for hr, if you're not familiar with it. we have some new applications. We just put out a, brand new really cool performance evaluation center to help you do performance. So evaluations really easily digitally, you know, and so that's one of our big features that we've just put out, and we're looking to even advance more throughout this year. So, you can click the link, use the code, SBS podcast, and that'll give you your discount in the signup section where that link is. And I'll, I'll put all this information in the show notes as well, so you can have it really easily, there as well. 

Lisa: Yeah, that's awesome. And we're just literally looking forward to growing our, our family over at help desk for hr.com. We've got roughly f I don't know, five or 6,000 active members, and it's just wonderful when we bring on new, new members to the little family. So jump on board with us because we keep you updated, we give you tools, we give you conversation that you cannot get anywhere else. 

Mason: Well, we were just talking about writing a policy for an emotional support animal. If you're looking at writing a policy, you send us that policy, we'll edit it up for you, give you suggestions, whatever you need to help you out, get that policy right. And make sure it's, you know, above board, you're not gonna get audited and, and, sued over it 

Lisa: . So that's you're mention. Yeah. And not to mention we have like 700 plus samples of forms and documents and policies and procedures in our library. you know, that you can just pull from anytime and go in and edit yourself, like templates and things like, you know, why Reinvent mobile app, the wheel mobile 

Mason: App Yeah. We have a mobile app where you can write your questions, you can search through all those policies and documents and grab 'em, right Yes. Write on the go. all kinds of stuff. So we just, so 

Lisa: Many 

Mason: Things we're not, we, we, you know, obviously we wanna promote our services, but we're here to help people in general, and that's what we, that's what our mission is. That's what your mission is when you started this. So, you 

Lisa: Know, yeah, it is, the mission is to just help small to medium size businesses maintain and, you know, achieve and maintain compliance with employment laws. And that's what we're here for. And, you know, we've been in business for, what, 11 years now, and we have met that mission and continue to do so. 

Mason: Yes. So yes. And our members love it. You know, we don't have a member that's like, that's really engages with us. That's not like, I can't live without this service anymore. like we have. 

Lisa: Yeah, I know. 

Mason: Yeah. That's, that's the kind of member base we've built, and that's the kind of, we stand behind our work, 

Lisa: So Yeah. And our members are wonderful, and I, we, I mean, you know, like I could start calling out names right now, but you know who you are, you know Yeah. Because we interact enough that you know who you are. Yeah, exactly. And all 8,000 of you . That's right. But, but, you know, and so we really appreciate all of our members and all the feedback they give us and all the support, 

Mason: Right. So, okay. Well, that, I think that'll pretty much, wrap up our show today. you can find us at help desk for hr.com, follow us on Twitter at help desk for hr. That's where you can comment on our podcasts and things like that. And, go ahead and tee us up for next week, Lisa. 

Lisa: Okay. So next week we are going to be discussing performance reviews. And we, there have been some studies and surveys conducted recently by our group as well as by Gallup and other organizations. And we're gonna talk about those and we're gonna find out why are they important, when might it be scary to do performance and reviews, and what might be an indicator that your company's not ready for them yet, and what also would be the repercussions of not doing them at all. And so it, it seems like a two-sided coin, and we're gonna break down those two sides and really let you know what you need to do, how and when. 

Mason: Okay. Awesome. Look forward to that. And with, with that, go ahead and take us out. 

Lisa: Yeah. Well, like we always say, nobody can be audit proof. Okay. If anybody ever tells you we're gonna audit proof your business, just close up your ears and stop listening because you can't be audit proof. I, 

Mason: That's a scam. 

Lisa: . That's a scam. That's right. I mean, I'm an e e O C certified investigator. I'm telling you, you can't be audit proof, you can't be investigation proof. But if you take the advice that we give you here at help desk for hr.com, you follow the steps, you read the statutes, you learn the requirements, then you can feel secure the day that that auditor, investigator, or litigator knocks on your door. So we always say be audit secure.